First, blackface minstrelsy is abhorent, period.

"Blackface today operates as a cultural signifier for the entire Jim Crow era."

True, given the character's namesake relationship to the suppresive laws in the South. But what's interesting is that blackface minstrelsy originated on Vaudeville circuits primarily in the NE and later in hollywood films (Birth of a Nation, The Jazz Singer, two of the most culturally & technologically significant films, milestones, featured blackface). The actual origins being far from the south, black minstrelsy was simply the ingorant white entertainer's supposition of the black man's condition or attitude. The limited personal experience of the northeasterner or hollywood entertainment elite hasn't changed much with their interpretations of the african american experience. You're either a gangsta rapper, a gang member or a minstrel. By present day minstrel, I mean the bumbling comic black stereotype so often portrayed by, for instance, Chris Tucker.

Wow!
Was I surprised to find you linking to Jesse Taylor. He used to be the major force of www.Pandagon.net Now when you log on, more than half of the articles are about Amanda Marcotte and her pussy, a person with no college degree and an awful lot of hate for men.

Robert: Amanda Marcotte is a fantastic blogger. She writes aggressively about feminism, as aggressively as Jesse Taylor writes about politics. It's one thing to say that she's wrong about things, but dismissing her out of hand or in a derogatory way can be read as proof of what she says about how men respond to women bloggers.

(And for what it's worth, the appositive in your sentence means something much different than what you intend.)

I don't agree that coastal elites are to blame for the values that led to the popularity or even the production of minstrelsy. One reason for the lasting popularity of minstrelsy is that it was able to survive outside the vaudeville and Hollywood circuits, in the form of community productions and local touring troupes.

I'm also confident that Chris Tucker's work isn't going to contribute to the lasting degradation of black people. But, yes, Hollywood creates a lot of pandering roles for black characters. It also creates a great deal of pandering movies.

Just want to add my two cents about a few things.

Mexico is part of the Americas, just like the United States. Since the U.S. does not have any exclusive rights to the term, "America", all native Mexicans are also native Americans.

The U.S. government is standing on some pretty muddy ground to be judging anyone about anything. History is quite clear regarding their treatment of blacks, hispanics, chinese, etc... . Not much has changed, not really.

Historically, I don't recall Mexico ever experiencing the level of controversy that the U.S. has regarding blacks.

The U.S. government should stop trying to come up more distractions to draw attention away from its own mess, and butt out.

What are they going to do next, accuse Mexico of creating WMDs via stamps?

Of course, private citizens are always free to comment on whatever they wish. And, if private groups, here in the U.S., want to make an issue out this, that's their right, here in the U.S.

The Memin Penguin stamps were released for Mexico, only. They were not published for U.S. consumption.

On a personal note, I don't believe Mexico had any racist intentions releasing the stamps.

I note with some amusement that "Robert Zimmerman" neglects to mention that it's comments like the above that got his ass banned from Pandagon in the first place.

Also, I don't think cultural relativism can possibly exonerate those images from being some seriously racist-ass stamps.

Origins are important, and at a minimum are indicative of the originators.

[This comment has been deleted.]

Also, I don't think cultural relativism can possibly exonerate those images from being some seriously racist-ass stamps.

Of course, you can't, Thad. Your judgment is colored by the liberal agenda of ridding the world of these images at at any cost to the exclusion of reason. Never mind that this is a different country with a different culture, history, etc. As pointed out previously, this cartoon character is a beloved image in Mexico and has little to do with the racism you attach to it.
Yours is political correctness as a pathology.

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Robert Zimmerman:

This site isn't a space for your personal attacks, so I deleted one of your comments. Your off-topic comment is bothersome as well (it looks like and is like spam). I don't want to ban any commenters, so try to be cool.

I deleted one of your comments

So who is surprised? Seems OK to personally attack the President of the US, the Vice-President and, I would imagine any other conservative. Yep, perfectly respectable, but WHOA!!! Take one swipe at an ignorant idiot from a small west Texas town who has no education and doesn't even post on this site and somehow, it's heinous.
Spare us all...

Hey, what did I just say? This page is not your gripe sheet. I have a feeling that this will fall on deaf ears, given your response to other bloggers in the past, but I'm asking again that you be respectful on this blog.

And another thing: do not mess with Texas.

Well, Sir, Pandagon used to be a really, really nice place. Although left-leaning, all views were welcome. We had great reasoned discussions from all angles without fights. Then came the beast from Alpine and all of a sudden it was "fuck this" and "fuck that" and "men suck" and "have you seen a picture of my cat?" Oh, and don't forget the great waste of bandwidth on smoking in bars. A recent post (July 3rd) was titled"Random thoughts on the myth of pussy control". Classy, eh?

Let's just say that Panadgon isn't what it used to be and it's really a shame.

Oh, and happy fourth!!

Yours,

Robert

Classy, eh?

In the spirit of Kriston's "no personal attacks" policy, this quote from Robert Zimmerman is reproduced above without comment.

The problem is that I don't have a comments policy. It's never been a problem, really, but I guess I'm going to have to make one now. It's the end of innocence! As far as Google is concerned, RZ is a troll, and his commenting won't be tolerated here for long.

Well, Sir,

Anyone who doesn't participate in the group-think of any blog and has a contrary opinion is always regarded as a 'troll' regardless of which way it leans. You would certainly be a girly-mon troll on many conservative blogs. The term is essentiallly meaningless.

If I were interested in being a "troll" I would change my identity so the liberals' posts about me woundn't show up on GOOGLE. Instead, I post only under one handle and am straight up with everyone...including you, Jesse Taylor, and even Miss Amanda. Even my email is a valid address.

But you haven't been honest. You posted under several handles at Pandagon, according to the post in which the authors announced that you were banned. Nevertheless: whether and how your commenting there was appropriate, whether Amanda's feminism is objectionable, whether you think Thad's liberalism is appropriate, and whether whatever it is you believe about the Nation of Islam is accurate—all pretty far afield from the post. I'm not asking you to agree with me on any of these items, but I am saying that this blog isn't your space for railing away on these topics. Especially not in the way you attacked Amanda.

I also don't want to spend a lot of energy defining precisely how you should comment here. There are a lot of comments in this thread registering disagreement, and it's possible to do so without interrupting the discussion.

Well, Sir,

It simply is not the case. I got the blame but it wasn't me. Also, no one ever got "banned" from Pandagon until Miss Amanda took over.

This thread did, indeed, get sidtracked. My original comment was my dismay that you would get your news from that source and that was it. Quick and clean. You escalated the issue with your unqualified defense of someone that doesn't even post here.
I have posted on Mr. Ezra Klein's board for months. He is left-leaning, but very fair and realizes that I lean more to the right than most who post there. So what? There is never a problem. Another little known fact is that I have never attempted to "register" for posting on Pandagon. It is now not a place that I would like to haunt. Jesse is more wild-eyed and Amanda...well you already know what a lightweight I believe she is so how interesting would it be for me anyway?

I think you and I just got off on the wrong foot.

Sorry to tun this "discussion" back to the topic, but. . .

The Blackface image can be turned back on itself with meaning and art.

http://steveturnergallery.com/artist_pages/greenfield.html#

All cartoonification involves some digree of caricature. Just because the "minstrel" caricature is inextricably linked with an ugly chapter in our history does not mean that any cartoon which exaggerates the features of african-americans can be dismissed as racist. It is knee-jerk political correctness to presume that it is so.

This column by Eugene Robinson pretty much put the finger on the whole faux controversy.

To clarify on my last sentence: Eugene Robinson thinks the stamps are a bad idea, not because they are racist, but because Americans are apt to find them so.

I think the problem here is that people assume that the comic book is not racist in Mexican culture. Memin Penguin is a racist production, not because it represents Jim Crow times. It is racist because it negatively stereotypes a race of people and makes fun of their physical attributes. People have to keep in mind that, back in the day it was "perfectly fine" to call Black Americans "nigger." So since it was done for years w/o complaint, why is it a problem now? Because is a racial slur based in igorance and hate. So since this racist production, Memin Penguin, has been around since the 50s, shouldn't it be okay to still like it? No. It takes time to get rid of a racist concept. Just because a majority who is not poked fun at in Memin Penguin, is not offended, does not mean the small voiced minority is not.

Vicente Fox, the President of Mexico says you're wrong. Let's see....who to believe? On one hand, we have the president of Mexico who obviously knows his culture well and on the other we have a liberal internet dweeb who projects his cultural norms on those of another country. Hmmmm....tough one, eh?

So why aren't you railing against the Arabs for their treatment of women?

Here is where open minded people can buy these stamps if they wish. http://tinyurl.com/b95zh

Ok all of you that don’t think the stamps are racist have never really visited Mexico or have black or Indian Latino. I am Black Latino from panama and I have traveled to many spots in Latin America. This is not an isolated incident. Of you go to other places you see the same characters in paintings and statues. It is a result of colonialism. I am talking about Latin countries that owe a lot of it cultures to those of African decent. Many of you need to do some serious research, before you make statements. Mexico has a rich tradition of African influence that is has suppressed. The George Washington of Mexico was Mulatto.